Monday, December 27, 2010
Q1b Goldfoot Line-The "Smoking Gun" of Khazarian ancestry
Nathan Goldfoot b: 1872 Home in Portland, Oregon. Moved there in 1906. 
Charles b: 1906 and Morris Goldfoot b: 1908at home in SW Portland, Oregon
Nadene Goldfoot
Dr. Behar is a famous geneticist. Reseachers, after discovering the haplogroup Q among Ashkenazi Jews, declared that only 5-8% of the Ashkenazi gene pool is made of Y chromosomes that originated from non-Jewish European populations. Haplogroup Q is a "minor founding lineage" among the Ashkenazim. It is found in 23 out of 442 Ashkenazi results (5%). They were interested to find that out of 50 non-Jewish Hungarian results, Q did not appear at all.
19 out of 23 Q results followed this pattern. DYS 19=13; DYS 388=12; DYS 389i=13; DYS 389ii=16; DYS 390=22; DYS 391=10; DYS 392=15; DYS 393=13; DYS 426=12; DYS 439=16.
The Goldfoot test of Q1b shows our DYS 389ii=29 and 30 instead of 16; and DYS 439=12 and not 16. Yet, after having the Deep Clade Test which comes after having all 67 alleles tested, we are in the category of M378, P36.2 along with many other Q's.
Behar called Q a "minor founding lineage," placing our group amng "those haplogroups likely to be present in the founding Ashkenazi population." The problem is that Q is rarely found in Middle Eastern populations in DNA studies, so most likely did not originate in Israelite ancestry. It's found among all Ashkenazi groups showing that the founders of this group either mixed with a number of separate Ashkenazi populations or entered through western Europe before Ashkenazis migrated in large numbers eastward in the 13th and 14th centuries.
The low haplotype diversity shows that a small number of closely-related founders merged with the Ashkenazim while living in Western Europe (most likely Germany, I think, due to our name of Goldfus/ss-Goldfoot). You can assume that the Ashkenazi population had 25,000 around 1200-1300 CE. This would mean that 1,000-1,500 Q's became part of the population then. Our ancestor was among them.
Q is rare in Europe as well. It occurs in Hungary 2.6% and much higher % in Siberia. It is found in Norway and the Shetland Islands of Scotland where many Norwegian Vikings settled. Q is found among Scandinavians as much as in Ashkenazim, and this is where most Q's are found. Both these groups evidently share a common ancestor from Central Asia or Eastern Europe.
Dienekes writes in 2004 that if Proto-Khazars were similar to today's Altaians, then they would have a frequency of about 22%Q. He thinks that Khazars have mixed into the Ashkenazi Jewish populations likely. The Khazars of Khazaria most likely were somewhat mixed with Western Eurasian elements, decreasing their frequency of having a Q haplogroup. He said that Q is found in high frequencies in only a few regions of the world. He agrees with familytree in that the origins were in Siberia or the Altai where Q continues to be a common Y chromosome haplogroup. Native Americans are Q3 and also originated there. They had left their Altai homeland earlier than the Ashkenazi or Scandinavians. They migrated to the New world between 10,000 to 17,000 years ago, giving them time to develop their own subgroup of Q3.
The Kets and Sekups who live on the eastern part of Western Siberia and the Yenisey River Valley can trace their origin further south on the slopes of the Altai mountains where Scandinavia's Q and K ancestorss originated. It could also be the homeland of Khazarian Q ancestors whose descendants are found today among Ashkenazi Jewish groups.
Research: A Mosaic of People: The Jewish Story and a Reassessment of the DNA Evidence by Ellen Levy-Coffman http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm
Labels: Altai Mts., Ashkenazi Jews, Q1b haplogroup
Sunday, December 26, 2010
Goldfoots of Haplogroup Q1b and Altai Mt
One of the other members who found his haplogroup to be Q1b has found evidence of some Q1b's to be living in the heart of Altai's area, west of Altai Krai. Familytreedna had said that Q1b's originated in the Altai Mt. area which covered Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey.
I'm wondering if these people just found have been there forever or if they migrated there for some reason. Being they are Mennonites is a big surprise to me. I read that Mennonites have Swiss and German roots as well as Dutch. They now number about 1 million and started about 1550 AD. They're found in North and South America, Africa, Europe and Asia. Their main thrust is pacifism, so they don't join any armies.
Labels: Altai Mts., Mennonites, Q1b haplogroup
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
Are Q1b Goldfoots from Khazaria? Most Likely Not
Goldfoot belongs to a haplogroup of Q1b, found to be from the Altai Mts in Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey. Those Q1b's who are Jewish make up only 5% of the total Jewish population of today. Some Q1b's are not Jewish. It is theorized that we might be from the royalty of Khazaria. The ruler had converted to Judaism at the heighth of their power in the 700's AD. He did not force the population to convert. Others say that this is impossible to be from Khazaria. Now the theory of Q1b being from Khazaria is quite dead. It is even thought that some R1's could be the Khazarians.
Khazaria was on the Silk Road and involved with trading. Kagan "King" Bulan had three speakers come to him; a Christian, Muslim, and Jew. He had decided on becoming Jewish. He and his royal court converted.
I'd like to know who we would have sprouted from if it isn't Khazaria. We had a common male ancestor from 1,000 years ago from these mountains. Since we descendants have a high percentage of a Jewish heritage, I deduce that this 1,000 yr old ancestor was also Jewish. He must have lived in a Jewish community at that time as the descendants found tend to be Jewish, too. The geographical origins do not hold Jewish strongholds except Khazaria that I know of. Jews are not people known to proselyze so we've never sent people out in the hinterlands to do so. We have moved around a lot for purposes of trade. Cohen haplogroups have been found in a tribe in Africa. One tribe there has even claimed ownership to Moses's ark. The Queen of Sheba and her entourage went back to their home in Africa pregnant after visiting King Solomon. We have their descendants now living in Israel.
Dan Kurzman back in 1948 wrote about Khazarians in an ibid in his book "Genesis 1948."
The Arabs roaming about in Palestine before the advent of Israel's birth on May 14, 1948 commented that all Jews were descendants from the Khazar tribes of southern Russia who had embraced Judaism. They didn't know that dna testing would prove otherwise. Now we know of the haplogroup that shows Cohens-direct descendants from Moses and Aaron, and other Jews from the Middle East.
In his reference, Kurzman had this comment. In the year A.D. 740, a Tartaric warrior people living in the kingdom of Khazar on the western shore of the Caspian Sea, speaking Greek and practicing a blend of Christianity and paganism, were converted to Judaism under their king, Bulan. However, in 969, and army from Kiev defeated the Khazars, incorporated their territory into a new Russian state, and reconverted them to Christianity. In 1500, another incredible episode took place in Russia when two Greek Orthodox priests in Lithuania converted to Judaism, proselytized in the hinterland, and won thousands of other converts, including the daughter-in-law of the Duke of Moscow. The frightened Orthodox Church stamped out the rush to Judaism by drowning 300 Jews as a form of "baptism," and trying-unsuccessfully-to banish the rest from Russian territory.
I just heard about something similar to this at our genealogy meeting from Hal Bookbinder of UCLA. After Russia was upset because some Russian citizens were captivated by Judaism, they decided to oust Jews from "Old Russia" by confining us to the Pale of Russia.
We're lucky in being able to pinpoint our geographical origins and years from a common ancestor. Now we just need a map dating 1,000 years back showing the area and its religious groups.
Resource: added 6/6/10 http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/06/tracing-the-roots-of-jewishness.html?etoc
Khazaria was on the Silk Road and involved with trading. Kagan "King" Bulan had three speakers come to him; a Christian, Muslim, and Jew. He had decided on becoming Jewish. He and his royal court converted.
I'd like to know who we would have sprouted from if it isn't Khazaria. We had a common male ancestor from 1,000 years ago from these mountains. Since we descendants have a high percentage of a Jewish heritage, I deduce that this 1,000 yr old ancestor was also Jewish. He must have lived in a Jewish community at that time as the descendants found tend to be Jewish, too. The geographical origins do not hold Jewish strongholds except Khazaria that I know of. Jews are not people known to proselyze so we've never sent people out in the hinterlands to do so. We have moved around a lot for purposes of trade. Cohen haplogroups have been found in a tribe in Africa. One tribe there has even claimed ownership to Moses's ark. The Queen of Sheba and her entourage went back to their home in Africa pregnant after visiting King Solomon. We have their descendants now living in Israel.
Dan Kurzman back in 1948 wrote about Khazarians in an ibid in his book "Genesis 1948."
The Arabs roaming about in Palestine before the advent of Israel's birth on May 14, 1948 commented that all Jews were descendants from the Khazar tribes of southern Russia who had embraced Judaism. They didn't know that dna testing would prove otherwise. Now we know of the haplogroup that shows Cohens-direct descendants from Moses and Aaron, and other Jews from the Middle East.
In his reference, Kurzman had this comment. In the year A.D. 740, a Tartaric warrior people living in the kingdom of Khazar on the western shore of the Caspian Sea, speaking Greek and practicing a blend of Christianity and paganism, were converted to Judaism under their king, Bulan. However, in 969, and army from Kiev defeated the Khazars, incorporated their territory into a new Russian state, and reconverted them to Christianity. In 1500, another incredible episode took place in Russia when two Greek Orthodox priests in Lithuania converted to Judaism, proselytized in the hinterland, and won thousands of other converts, including the daughter-in-law of the Duke of Moscow. The frightened Orthodox Church stamped out the rush to Judaism by drowning 300 Jews as a form of "baptism," and trying-unsuccessfully-to banish the rest from Russian territory.
I just heard about something similar to this at our genealogy meeting from Hal Bookbinder of UCLA. After Russia was upset because some Russian citizens were captivated by Judaism, they decided to oust Jews from "Old Russia" by confining us to the Pale of Russia.
We're lucky in being able to pinpoint our geographical origins and years from a common ancestor. Now we just need a map dating 1,000 years back showing the area and its religious groups.
Resource: added 6/6/10 http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/06/tracing-the-roots-of-jewishness.html?etoc
Labels: Khazaria, Q1b haplogroup
Sunday, June 21, 2009
Continually Discovering My Roots through DNA
by Nadene Goldfoot
Edited again 10/5/2012
Q1b1's haplogroup make up 5% of the entire Jewish population which amounts to about 1% or less of the world population, so I’m in a very small group of people. Through DNA at familytreedna in Houston, I’ve discovered my roots go back thousands of years to one man from the Altay Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and a little of Turkey. This was done by testing my brother for our grandfather’s origins, and is only done with the male, called a Ydna test. Besides my brother, I had found a 2nd cousin of Stanley Goldfoot, another Goldfoot, thank goodness, working right in Houston, Texas having immigrated there from South Africa. I had already met Stanley in Jerusalem when I lived in Israel from 1980-1985. Stanley turned out to be the former Chief of Intelligence for the Stern Group, a fighting group of Jews helping Israel to become a state. Both my brother and the 2nd cousin were tested and both were found to be Q1b’s, or Q1b1a or Q L245, so I’ve known we are related, but lacked a paper trail.
At first we thought we were of the Khazarian Jews. The Chinese held the records of Khazarian Jews. . The Ashina Turkic people were acting more as a noble or royal line which played the role of a political entity unifying various Turkic speaking tribes. It was also known as a Desert aristocracy and it was a ruling class of a number of central Asian empires, and eventually it became the ruling class or nobility known as khagans or emperors of the Khazarian Khaganate in the early middle ages in the year 656 AD after the collapse of the Gokturk Empire under pressure from the resurgent Uyghurs. Then branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe where they became the kaghans of the Khazars. From there it was easy to get into Russia. My grandfather, I presume, was from Lithuania and Ashkenazi, and to find that my roots lie in Mongolia and Siberia thousands of years ago was quite a surprise. But my Q line is not thought today to be from Khazaria. More likely it is from the Middle East around Ur, which today is in Iraq. Another dna grouping, the R1's are thought to be from Khazaria's royal line that converted to Judaism.
It was Arthur Koestler who wrote "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976 that caused people to think that all Ashkenazi Jews were actually from Khazaria and not directly from the tribe of Judah. DNA evidence since then shows he was very wrong. The haplogroup of R1b is thought to be from Khazaria. Our Q line has evidence that suggests it is more likely to be from the Mediterranean area, probably around Ur. The largest group of Jews today are of the haplogroup J1, which is called the Cohen gene. Yes, the Jews living in Israel today are mostly from the tribe of Judah.
Actually, I am reminded that if I go back even farther, we really did start in the Middle East with our male line being P haplogroup. It had the two lines branch off of it which were Q and R.
What happened was that the ruling class of the Khazarian Empire (Khagan Bulan and 4,000 of his nobles, converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD. Originally they were people who were practicing Turkish shamanism. The head Khagan heard speakers of Christianity, Muslims and Jews speak and he chose Judasim. They did not force any conversion. It seems that only the ruling class of the Khazars became Jews. Abba Eban stated that it appears that the majority of the population remained either Christian or Moslem. I can take it then that being Jewish was a royal thing to be.
You may remember that one of our past speakers was Kevin Alan Brook who wrote "The Jews of Khazaria." For some time we haven’t really been sure about whether or not our rare dna really came from Khazaria, but we have now come to this conclusion. We are all marked by a rare mutation called M378 and fit into a haplotype-a sequence of genetic markers-peculiar to us. Not surprising to me, we’re all a rather learned group. I’ve just gone for the 67 allele marker test and will receive the results around July 6th. We are likely to find that many of the 300 people so far discovered will easily be my 7th or 8th cousins, having an ancestor less than 300 years ago.
The group is organized with several heads that have taken various aspects on as responsibilites..
PS: 1/26/10: There are known skeletons of Khazars from the Don-valley (Sarkel, Semikarakovskoye, etc.) and from the Crimea (e.g., Sudak). It is important to note that Khazarian skeletons and North Caucasian Turks have not yet been used to compare Jewish genes with likely traces of the Khazars. Thus, the Khazar theory has not really been put to the genetic test yet. Some historians and scientists are starting to recognize the need for specifically testing the Khazar theory, rather than generalizing based on studies of other non-Khazar populations:
.
Edited again 10/5/2012
Q1b1's haplogroup make up 5% of the entire Jewish population which amounts to about 1% or less of the world population, so I’m in a very small group of people. Through DNA at familytreedna in Houston, I’ve discovered my roots go back thousands of years to one man from the Altay Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and a little of Turkey. This was done by testing my brother for our grandfather’s origins, and is only done with the male, called a Ydna test. Besides my brother, I had found a 2nd cousin of Stanley Goldfoot, another Goldfoot, thank goodness, working right in Houston, Texas having immigrated there from South Africa. I had already met Stanley in Jerusalem when I lived in Israel from 1980-1985. Stanley turned out to be the former Chief of Intelligence for the Stern Group, a fighting group of Jews helping Israel to become a state. Both my brother and the 2nd cousin were tested and both were found to be Q1b’s, or Q1b1a or Q L245, so I’ve known we are related, but lacked a paper trail.
At first we thought we were of the Khazarian Jews. The Chinese held the records of Khazarian Jews. . The Ashina Turkic people were acting more as a noble or royal line which played the role of a political entity unifying various Turkic speaking tribes. It was also known as a Desert aristocracy and it was a ruling class of a number of central Asian empires, and eventually it became the ruling class or nobility known as khagans or emperors of the Khazarian Khaganate in the early middle ages in the year 656 AD after the collapse of the Gokturk Empire under pressure from the resurgent Uyghurs. Then branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe where they became the kaghans of the Khazars. From there it was easy to get into Russia. My grandfather, I presume, was from Lithuania and Ashkenazi, and to find that my roots lie in Mongolia and Siberia thousands of years ago was quite a surprise. But my Q line is not thought today to be from Khazaria. More likely it is from the Middle East around Ur, which today is in Iraq. Another dna grouping, the R1's are thought to be from Khazaria's royal line that converted to Judaism.
It was Arthur Koestler who wrote "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976 that caused people to think that all Ashkenazi Jews were actually from Khazaria and not directly from the tribe of Judah. DNA evidence since then shows he was very wrong. The haplogroup of R1b is thought to be from Khazaria. Our Q line has evidence that suggests it is more likely to be from the Mediterranean area, probably around Ur. The largest group of Jews today are of the haplogroup J1, which is called the Cohen gene. Yes, the Jews living in Israel today are mostly from the tribe of Judah.
Actually, I am reminded that if I go back even farther, we really did start in the Middle East with our male line being P haplogroup. It had the two lines branch off of it which were Q and R.
What happened was that the ruling class of the Khazarian Empire (Khagan Bulan and 4,000 of his nobles, converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD. Originally they were people who were practicing Turkish shamanism. The head Khagan heard speakers of Christianity, Muslims and Jews speak and he chose Judasim. They did not force any conversion. It seems that only the ruling class of the Khazars became Jews. Abba Eban stated that it appears that the majority of the population remained either Christian or Moslem. I can take it then that being Jewish was a royal thing to be.
You may remember that one of our past speakers was Kevin Alan Brook who wrote "The Jews of Khazaria." For some time we haven’t really been sure about whether or not our rare dna really came from Khazaria, but we have now come to this conclusion. We are all marked by a rare mutation called M378 and fit into a haplotype-a sequence of genetic markers-peculiar to us. Not surprising to me, we’re all a rather learned group. I’ve just gone for the 67 allele marker test and will receive the results around July 6th. We are likely to find that many of the 300 people so far discovered will easily be my 7th or 8th cousins, having an ancestor less than 300 years ago.
The group is organized with several heads that have taken various aspects on as responsibilites..
PS: 1/26/10: There are known skeletons of Khazars from the Don-valley (Sarkel, Semikarakovskoye, etc.) and from the Crimea (e.g., Sudak). It is important to note that Khazarian skeletons and North Caucasian Turks have not yet been used to compare Jewish genes with likely traces of the Khazars. Thus, the Khazar theory has not really been put to the genetic test yet. Some historians and scientists are starting to recognize the need for specifically testing the Khazar theory, rather than generalizing based on studies of other non-Khazar populations:
.
Labels: DNA test, evidence, Khazaria, present dna conclusions, Q1b haplogroup, Royal Ashina Dynasty, Ur
